My benefits of taking mTGV vs Metotrexate
Overall, my experience is very good.
In a word, my condition is Rheumatoid Arthritis and my current prescription is medicinal Thunder God Vine (mTGV) 1,5mg/kg/day. I also take a very small dose of 2,5mg Prednisone every day.
My mTGV dosage calculation
The mTGV dosage is 1,5mg/kg/day,
The tablets are 10mg tablets,
I weight 67kg
67 X 1,5 = 100mg/day = 10 tablets/day.
There is a safe recommendation of maximum 90mg/day (9 tablets), so important to note that with 10 tablets I’m slightly over the maximum recommendation.
.
My daily regimen
⁕ 10 tablets mTGV in 3 times after meals: 3 in the morning, 4 at lunch, 3 at dinner.
⁕ 2,5mg/day Prednisone in the morning.
.
My previous treatment
⁕ Methotrexate injections 25mg/week
⁕ Folic Acid 1mg/day 5 days a week
⁕ Prednisone 3 to 5mg/day,
⁕ Naproxen 550mg every other day
Previous symptoms
The various symptoms of Rheumatoid Arthritis and the side effects of my previous treatment (Methotrexate) are not easy to separate.
Namely, these included exhaustion, morning stiffness, nausea, joint pain, incapacitated joints, swollen joints, dysautonomia, arrhythmia, nodules and anxiety.
.
Symptoms with mTGV
My symptoms slowly improved over the period of the first 6 months and became mild from April 2016 on.
After that, during the following 6 months, things kept improving. I sometimes had a tender joint somewhere in the evening . It didn’t hurt, it was more like a discomfort and a reminder that the disease was very quiet but still there. I also had no more arrhythmia (usually lasted for a week then go away) and no dysautonomia (long lasting light head and dizziness due to dropping blood pressure).
.
Symptoms today
Today I don’t have any RA symptoms at all. Sometimes, in the course of about 10 days to 15 days, I feel an overall discomfort and tiredness. I attribute this to the onset of an RA flares.
Possible side effects at the very beginning of taking
I experienced 2 or 3 strong headaches on the first week of starting mTGV, which is unusual for me.
I have had one diplopia (sudden double vision) episode in the first months of taking. I was walking in the street. It was very hot and I was perhaps dehydrated. It didn’t last for very long, around a minute or two. It was a quite disturbing experience.
.
Other possible side effects
In the beginning of taking, I had a nodule appear on the sole of my left foot, on the big toe mound.
It was not painful or uncomfortable even barefoot, and it didn’t change my walking habits. I could kind of roll it under my fingers, it was the size of a small pea. It lasted for about 4 to 6 weeks then decreased and finally disappeared altogether. I never thought again about it until I had a new one during May 2017. Underneath the neck of my left big toe this time, all comparable to the first one. This one lasted almost 2 years not getting bigger or smaller, nor painful. In April 2019 it was almost gone. In May 2020, it was completely gone.
During the times of my previous treatment (Methotrexate), I had many painful nodules on my forearms and on each elbow tip. Those had completely disappeared 6 months after starting taking.
.
Possible positive side effects
In the category of possible positive side effects, I had previously read somewhere that Thunder God Vine has antiviral properties. In the past 5 and a half years, I must say I have had 1 cold in March 2018 and zero flu (while others around me had both, usually first my daughter with school passing it on to my husband) which is odd for me. And no infection except 2 benign UTIs which I also used to have in the past. I had a couple of food poisoning too from eating outside.
I have had zero other health issues since taking medicinal Thunder God Vine.
A recent contraindication
On the safety notice, there are some contraindications noted (see the documentation).
This year 2021, I have had a duodenal ulceration that took some antacids for a month to give way.
I also had duodenal ulcerations in the past before I declared RA so it’s not something new for me.
I stopped taking mTGV during the first 15 days of treatment because the safety notice says duodenal ulcer is a contraindication. It was a bit complicated, I was afraid for the next 15 days but things had already improved sufficiently.
.
Interactions with antibiotics
I have had episodes of taking antibiotics. Two times for UTIs and one for a supposed tooth infection a few days before my summer trip back to France in June 2017, which in fact was not.
I took mTGV with my first time UTI antibiotic. The interaction was very clear, I had a quick increase in symptoms. This is when I learned that some antibiotics can interact with taking mTGV. So I stopped for the rest of treatment and everything returned to normal. For the 2nd UTI I stopped taking mTGV 5 days without any noticeable change in symptoms.
For the false tooth infection alarm, I decided to push the limit beyond the treatment to see what would happen and ended up to 17 days without taking mTGV. After 12 to 15 days some symptoms were clearly slowly returning. It took 7 to 10 days to come back to normal after I resumed the treatment.
.
Interactions with supplements
I have tried to take turmeric with the hope to stop the little Prednisone I take daily. My Paris rheumatologist says that the dose of 2.5mg/day I take is so small I shouldn’t be able to notice any difference, but I do.
I was never able to go below 2,5 mg/day, even with my previous treatment, without triggering symptoms. Swapping Prednisone to NSAIDs works but my stomach doesn’t like it without taking along some antacids so I made my choice.
So I tried turmeric powder at 2g/day (with coconut oil + pepper as is recommended). This clearly interacted with one of my medications, namely mTGV or Prednisone. Maybe it was the turmeric, maybe the pepper…
This is one of the reasons why I am very cautious with taking supplements, there can happen so many combined interactions that it’s impossible to know which does what.
I tried 2 times at different periods with the same result, I had to stop after 5 days because of emerging symptoms.
Last time I checked, my blood analysis results were all in normal range (liver, kidney, ESR, total blood cell count).
I only indicate below what was out of the normal range in the blood tests I did over time. The other values were good.
.
07 May 2014: diagnosis day results
ESR 1hour (should be < 15mm) ==> 58 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30mm) ==> 93 mm
CRP (should be < 5 mg/L) ==> 17,1 mg/L
Rheumatoid Factor (should be < 14 UI/ml) ==> 41,20 UI/ml
Cyclic Ciltullinated Peptide antibody (should be < 5 UR/ml) ==> 15,3 UR/ml
ASAT (should be 10 to 35 U/L) ==> 41 U/L
ALAT (should be 10 to 35 U/L) ==> 44 U/L
.
Until July 2015: next results while taking Methotrexate
All analysis (Dec 2014 – March 2015) show that ESR is too high and that Red Cell count is on the lower range or too low.
3 July 2014
ESR 1hour (should be < 15) ==> 46 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30) ==> 83 mm
Red cell count (should be 4 000 000 to 5 400 000) ==> 3 980 000/ mm3
21 August 2014
ESR 1hour (should be < 15) ==> 16 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30) ==> 39 mm
22 July 2015
ESR 1hour (should be < 15) ==> 26 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30) ==> 58 mm
.
2 months after I starter medicinal TGV in September 2015
I have lost my first October results. In the beginning of taking I had 3 months with slightly elevated white cell count. Then all went back to normal range until today.
14 Nov 2015
Neutrophils (should be 46,5 to 75%) ==> 77,1 %
14 Jan 2016
Neutrophils (should be 46,5 to 75%) ==> 78,0%
Later blood tests all show analysis in range namely CRP, ESR, ASAT ALAT, Total Blood Cells and Creatinine.
My mTGV dosage calculation
The mTGV dosage is 1,5mg/kg/day,
The tablets are 10mg tablets,
I weight 67kg
67 X 1,5 = 100mg/day = 10 tablets/day.
There is a safe recommendation of maximum 90mg/day (9 tablets), so important to note that with 10 tablets I’m slightly over the maximum recommendation.
.
My daily regimen
⁕ 10 tablets mTGV in 3 times after meals: 3 in the morning, 4 at lunch, 3 at dinner.
⁕ 2,5mg/day Prednisone in the morning.
.
My previous treatment
⁕ Methotrexate injections 25mg/week
⁕ Folic Acid 1mg/day 5 days a week
⁕ Prednisone 3 to 5mg/day,
⁕ Naproxen 550mg every other day
Previous symptoms
The various symptoms of Rheumatoid Arthritis and the side effects of my previous treatment (Methotrexate) are not easy to separate.
Namely, these included exhaustion, morning stiffness, nausea, joint pain, incapacitated joints, swollen joints, dysautonomia, arrhythmia, nodules and anxiety.
.
Symptoms with mTGV
My symptoms slowly improved over the period of the first 6 months and became mild from April 2016 on.
After that, during the following 6 months, things kept improving. I sometimes had a tender joint somewhere in the evening . It didn’t hurt, it was more like a discomfort and a reminder that the disease was very quiet but still there. I also had no more arrhythmia (usually lasted for a week then go away) and no dysautonomia (long lasting light head and dizziness due to dropping blood pressure).
.
Symptoms today
Today I don’t have any RA symptoms at all. Sometimes, in the course of about 10 days to 15 days, I feel an overall discomfort and tiredness. I attribute this to the onset of an RA flares.
Possible side effects at the very beginning of taking
I experienced 2 or 3 strong headaches on the first week of starting mTGV, which is unusual for me.
I have had one diplopia (sudden double vision) episode in the first months of taking. I was walking in the street. It was very hot and I was perhaps dehydrated. It didn’t last for very long, around a minute or two. It was a quite disturbing experience.
.
Other possible side effects
In the beginning of taking, I had a nodule appear on the sole of my left foot, on the big toe mound.
It was not painful or uncomfortable even barefoot, and it didn’t change my walking habits. I could kind of roll it under my fingers, it was the size of a small pea. It lasted for about 4 to 6 weeks then decreased and finally disappeared altogether. I never thought again about it until I had a new one during May 2017. Underneath the neck of my left big toe this time, all comparable to the first one. This one lasted almost 2 years not getting bigger or smaller, nor painful. In April 2019 it was almost gone. In May 2020, it was completely gone.
During the times of my previous treatment (Methotrexate), I had many painful nodules on my forearms and on each elbow tip. Those had completely disappeared 6 months after starting taking.
.
Possible positive side effects
In the category of possible positive side effects, I had previously read somewhere that Thunder God Vine has antiviral properties. In the past 5 and a half years, I must say I have had 1 cold in March 2018 and zero flu (while others around me had both, usually first my daughter with school passing it on to my husband) which is odd for me. And no infection except 2 benign UTIs which I also used to have in the past. I had a couple of food poisoning too from eating outside.
I have had zero other health issues since taking medicinal Thunder God Vine.
A recent contraindication
On the safety notice, there are some contraindications noted (see the documentation).
This year 2021, I have had a duodenal ulceration that took some antacids for a month to give way.
I also had duodenal ulcerations in the past before I declared RA so it’s not something new for me.
I stopped taking mTGV during the first 15 days of treatment because the safety notice says duodenal ulcer is a contraindication. It was a bit complicated, I was afraid for the next 15 days but things had already improved sufficiently.
.
Interactions with antibiotics
I have had episodes of taking antibiotics. Two times for UTIs and one for a supposed tooth infection a few days before my summer trip back to France in June 2017, which in fact was not.
I took mTGV with my first time UTI antibiotic. The interaction was very clear, I had a quick increase in symptoms. This is when I learned that some antibiotics can interact with taking mTGV. So I stopped for the rest of treatment and everything returned to normal. For the 2nd UTI I stopped taking mTGV 5 days without any noticeable change in symptoms.
For the false tooth infection alarm, I decided to push the limit beyond the treatment to see what would happen and ended up to 17 days without taking mTGV. After 12 to 15 days some symptoms were clearly slowly returning. It took 7 to 10 days to come back to normal after I resumed the treatment.
.
Interactions with supplements
I have tried to take turmeric with the hope to stop the little Prednisone I take daily. My Paris rheumatologist says that the dose of 2.5mg/day I take is so small I shouldn’t be able to notice any difference, but I do.
I was never able to go below 2,5 mg/day, even with my previous treatment, without triggering symptoms. Swapping Prednisone to NSAIDs works but my stomach doesn’t like it without taking along some antacids so I made my choice.
So I tried turmeric powder at 2g/day (with coconut oil + pepper as is recommended). This clearly interacted with one of my medications, namely mTGV or Prednisone. Maybe it was the turmeric, maybe the pepper…
This is one of the reasons why I am very cautious with taking supplements, there can happen so many combined interactions that it’s impossible to know which does what.
I tried 2 times at different periods with the same result, I had to stop after 5 days because of emerging symptoms.
Last time I checked, my blood analysis results were all in normal range (liver, kidney, ESR, total blood cell count).
I only indicate below what was out of the normal range in the blood tests I did over time. The other values were good.
.
07 May 2014: diagnosis day results
ESR 1hour (should be < 15mm) ==> 58 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30mm) ==> 93 mm
CRP (should be < 5 mg/L) ==> 17,1 mg/L
Rheumatoid Factor (should be < 14 UI/ml) ==> 41,20 UI/ml
Cyclic Ciltullinated Peptide antibody (should be < 5 UR/ml) ==> 15,3 UR/ml
ASAT (should be 10 to 35 U/L) ==> 41 U/L
ALAT (should be 10 to 35 U/L) ==> 44 U/L
.
Until July 2015: next results while taking Methotrexate
All analysis (Dec 2014 – March 2015) show that ESR is too high and that Red Cell count is on the lower range or too low.
3 July 2014
ESR 1hour (should be < 15) ==> 46 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30) ==> 83 mm
Red cell count (should be 4 000 000 to 5 400 000) ==> 3 980 000/ mm3
21 August 2014
ESR 1hour (should be < 15) ==> 16 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30) ==> 39 mm
22 July 2015
ESR 1hour (should be < 15) ==> 26 mm
ESR 2hour (should be < 30) ==> 58 mm
.
2 months after I starter medicinal TGV in September 2015
I have lost my first October results. In the beginning of taking I had 3 months with slightly elevated white cell count. Then all went back to normal range until today.
14 Nov 2015
Neutrophils (should be 46,5 to 75%) ==> 77,1 %
14 Jan 2016
Neutrophils (should be 46,5 to 75%) ==> 78,0%
Later blood tests all show analysis in range namely CRP, ESR, ASAT ALAT, Total Blood Cells and Creatinine.
Comparing the benefits
I started taking medicinal Thunder God Vine in September 2015.
I consider myself in a remission since April 2016. Reason is I work again since April 2016, whereas it was not something I would have considered with my previous treatment.
At first, the treatment took 4 / 5 weeks to kick in. Then, the change in my daily rating went up progressively.
4 months later, my daily rating was 8 to 9/10. However some remaining morning stiffness and fatigue took longer, slowly decreasing over the next 6 month. I’d say it took a complete full year to feel like my old self again. This data is available in a post here: Five years taking mTGV.
Today, after 5 full years in a remission, my rating is stabilized to 10. The level of activity of the disease is extremely low.
In conclusion, if I am asked to rate my experience, I say more effective and much more tolerable than the previous one.
I was on Methotrexate for a year (July 2014 to July 2015). I was nauseous 4 days a week, experiencing great exhaustion, I had long morning stiffness + tender joints almost every day.